[ProgSoc] Progsoc debate?

Nathan de Vries nathan at atnan.com
Tue Apr 8 10:43:50 EST 2008

On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 23:20 +1000, Myles Byrne wrote:
> Those are crappy names but what I'm trying to describe is the growing
> rift between the python/ruby/perl camp who employ parsing & runtime
> tricks to shorten their line-count - sometimes creating new mini
> languages (or dialects of the original language) - and the Java/C#
> camp who favor a less malleable runtime and more explicit syntax so
> they can do cool stuff at the tool level with static analysis of the
> code.

What about:

        The often touted "agile", "nimble" benefits of loosely typed,
        dynamic languages are negated by the use of powerful automated
        code refactoring tools when combined with statically typed
I've recently had this argument with the Java developers at work,
something along the lines of "aren't you sick and tired of defining
getters & setters all day?", to which the inevitable response is "my IDE
does that for me". This makes no sense to me, since you would think that
these laborious tasks carried out by the IDE could be dropped in favour
of language changes.

A humorous thought is that of the Eclipse developers, writing Eclipse in
Java but without the tools required to make writing Java a tolerable
experience. I wonder how quickly they were capable of bootstrapping &
started writing Eclipse in Eclipse with demonstrable improvement to
development time.


Nathan de Vries
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