From tomchristmas at progsoc.org  Thu Mar 16 07:54:44 2017
From: tomchristmas at progsoc.org (Tom Bozic)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:54:44 +1100
Subject: [ProgSoc] Happy 28th Birthday ProgSoc
Message-ID: <9517434B-DF04-4C81-82BF-EC82B21B6DA0@progsoc.org>

We're still here, we're still alive, we've yet to secure a room (or at least a permanent space of some such), but I'm told we've got many activities planned for this year, so let's celebrate!

Tom

---------
To judiciously use split infinitives is fine by me


From tomchristmas at progsoc.org  Sat Mar 18 16:29:52 2017
From: tomchristmas at progsoc.org (Tomislav Bozic)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:29:52 +1100
Subject: [ProgSoc] Thinking, Functionally and Imperatively
Message-ID: <e0225e19-ec2a-da1b-533f-70c9d949fff8@progsoc.org>

Hi!

Last Tuesday, having developed a nascent desire to broaden my horizons, 
I attended an introductory talk on Scala. It was an interesting enough 
talk. The speaker demonstrated how one could become productive with the 
language almost right away, even if one was not familiar with the 
functional paradigm, that is to say, one can program in an imperative 
style in Scala before moving up to its functional features when one is 
ready to do so. Most of the stuff relating to 'monads' and 'implicits' 
went largely over my head. Nonetheless, it has provided a springboard 
for further exploration of Scala.

The thing that interested me the most from the meetup, however, was the 
Q&A session, where an audience member regaled his experience about 
learning programming languages, which to me was somewhat surprising and 
unorthodox.

For you see, he learned Haskell first(!) during his high school years. 
Then, when he went to uni, he learned Java, which he found to be a bit 
of a struggle, since he had to adjust to a totally different way of 
thinking (sound familiar?). He said something along the lines of: with 
imperative languages such as Java, the programmer is required to keep 
track of state (of variables and whathaveyou) in their head, whereas 
functional languages, which are supposed to be stateless, do not have 
such a requirement...and that threw him off.

 From this, one could conclude that functional languages aren't 
necessarily harder than imperative languages to learn, they just require 
you to think differently.

So I'm wondering if this rings true to you.

Also, has anyone else here learned how to program in a functional 
language before touching a more 'traditional' imperative language[1]?

Tom

P.S. I should probably go to more of these meetups, if for no other 
reason than to come up with things to talk about...

---

[Subject:] Kudos to anyone who recognises the allusion in the subject of 
this email.

[1] or, as I call it, learning to fly before learning to walk.


From knockycode at progsoc.org  Sat Mar 18 20:50:11 2017
From: knockycode at progsoc.org (Jenny Nguyen)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 09:50:11 +0000
Subject: [ProgSoc] Thinking, Functionally and Imperatively
In-Reply-To: <e0225e19-ec2a-da1b-533f-70c9d949fff8@progsoc.org>
References: <e0225e19-ec2a-da1b-533f-70c9d949fff8@progsoc.org>
Message-ID: <CAN2Xw+WjNyVeo+4bpzfe2A_3aA3FQ1eHSqUOe-h7QjDrh-MATw@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately I learned java first before I tried Haskell but I can see why
the audience member had to switch thinking processes to understand java and
OOP.

Interesting perspective. Maybe I'll try Scala this year as it seems less
daunting now (depending on my next role as I may be too busy working with
JavaScript and its libraries instead...)

How about everyone else?

Jenny (who had to send this once to Tom and then to the Progsoc list.
Strange to try to remember to hit Reply All instead of just Reply again)

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 at 4:31 pm, Tomislav Bozic <tomchristmas at progsoc.org>
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Last Tuesday, having developed a nascent desire to broaden my horizons,
> I attended an introductory talk on Scala. It was an interesting enough
> talk. The speaker demonstrated how one could become productive with the
> language almost right away, even if one was not familiar with the
> functional paradigm, that is to say, one can program in an imperative
> style in Scala before moving up to its functional features when one is
> ready to do so. Most of the stuff relating to 'monads' and 'implicits'
> went largely over my head. Nonetheless, it has provided a springboard
> for further exploration of Scala.
>
> The thing that interested me the most from the meetup, however, was the
> Q&A session, where an audience member regaled his experience about
> learning programming languages, which to me was somewhat surprising and
> unorthodox.
>
> For you see, he learned Haskell first(!) during his high school years.
> Then, when he went to uni, he learned Java, which he found to be a bit
> of a struggle, since he had to adjust to a totally different way of
> thinking (sound familiar?). He said something along the lines of: with
> imperative languages such as Java, the programmer is required to keep
> track of state (of variables and whathaveyou) in their head, whereas
> functional languages, which are supposed to be stateless, do not have
> such a requirement...and that threw him off.
>
>  From this, one could conclude that functional languages aren't
> necessarily harder than imperative languages to learn, they just require
> you to think differently.
>
> So I'm wondering if this rings true to you.
>
> Also, has anyone else here learned how to program in a functional
> language before touching a more 'traditional' imperative language[1]?
>
> Tom
>
> P.S. I should probably go to more of these meetups, if for no other
> reason than to come up with things to talk about...
>
> ---
>
> [Subject:] Kudos to anyone who recognises the allusion in the subject of
> this email.
>
> [1] or, as I call it, learning to fly before learning to walk.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Progsoc mailing list
> Progsoc at progsoc.org
> http://progsoc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progsoc
>
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From roland at rolandturner.com  Mon Mar 20 16:58:06 2017
From: roland at rolandturner.com (Roland Turner)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:58:06 +0800
Subject: [ProgSoc] Happy 28th Birthday ProgSoc
In-Reply-To: <9517434B-DF04-4C81-82BF-EC82B21B6DA0@progsoc.org>
References: <9517434B-DF04-4C81-82BF-EC82B21B6DA0@progsoc.org>
Message-ID: <67b11a54-9c86-59a8-b95e-04749bfec0c2@rolandturner.com>

I was reflecting on the lack of a room over the weekend during the 
running of FOSSASIA (1,200 person / 200 speaker open-tech conference); 
we have no permanent physical location, not even any permanent storage. 
It turns out that you can do a remarkable amount without permanent 
real-estate.

Happy birthday ProgSoc!

- Raz

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 16/03/17 04:54, Tom Bozic wrote:
> We're still here, we're still alive, we've yet to secure a room (or at least a permanent space of some such), but I'm told we've got many activities planned for this year, so let's celebrate!
>
> Tom
>
> ---------
> To judiciously use split infinitives is fine by me
>
> _______________________________________________
> Progsoc mailing list
> Progsoc at progsoc.org
> http://progsoc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progsoc


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From tomchristmas at progsoc.org  Mon Mar 20 18:32:38 2017
From: tomchristmas at progsoc.org (Tomislav Bozic)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:32:38 +1100
Subject: [ProgSoc] Happy 28th Birthday ProgSoc
In-Reply-To: <67b11a54-9c86-59a8-b95e-04749bfec0c2@rolandturner.com>
References: <9517434B-DF04-4C81-82BF-EC82B21B6DA0@progsoc.org>
 <67b11a54-9c86-59a8-b95e-04749bfec0c2@rolandturner.com>
Message-ID: <467deb30-939d-693f-7528-7505f3fe7f72@progsoc.org>

Well of course you can do a lot without a regular permanent space. All 
you need is a core, sufficiently-motivated membership to run regular 
events. I think that is our top priority.

Second would be the impending server issue.

Third would be "get a permanent space". It's kind of hard to facilitate 
a 'hackerspace' culture without one. Having a place to chill out and 
work on projects is something I would definitely want again.

Tom

On 20/03/17 16:58, Roland Turner wrote:
> I was reflecting on the lack of a room over the weekend during the
> running of FOSSASIA (1,200 person / 200 speaker open-tech conference);
> we have no permanent physical location, not even any permanent storage.
> It turns out that you can do a remarkable amount without permanent
> real-estate.
>
> Happy birthday ProgSoc!
>
> - Raz
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 16/03/17 04:54, Tom Bozic wrote:
>> We're still here, we're still alive, we've yet to secure a room (or at least a permanent space of some such), but I'm told we've got many activities planned for this year, so let's celebrate!
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> ---------
>> To judiciously use split infinitives is fine by me
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Progsoc mailing list
>> Progsoc at progsoc.org
>> http://progsoc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progsoc
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Progsoc mailing list
> Progsoc at progsoc.org
> http://progsoc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progsoc
>


From roland at rolandturner.com  Mon Mar 20 18:40:01 2017
From: roland at rolandturner.com (Roland Turner)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:40:01 +0800
Subject: [ProgSoc] Thinking, Functionally and Imperatively
In-Reply-To: <e0225e19-ec2a-da1b-533f-70c9d949fff8@progsoc.org>
References: <e0225e19-ec2a-da1b-533f-70c9d949fff8@progsoc.org>
Message-ID: <a49dcec9-bf07-3e08-ee3d-9d863fb11bb0@rolandturner.com>

I experienced learning Miranda after having learned >30 other languages 
of various types (none functional) as a sort of somewhat agreeable 
brain-damage. I can trace my loss of tolerance for gratuitous complexity 
to the moment when I realised that I could turn my formal specification 
for a text editor (expressed in Miranda) into a running text editor with 
the addition of <20 lines of code.

- Raz

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 18/03/17 13:29, Tomislav Bozic wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Last Tuesday, having developed a nascent desire to broaden my 
> horizons, I attended an introductory talk on Scala. It was an 
> interesting enough talk. The speaker demonstrated how one could become 
> productive with the language almost right away, even if one was not 
> familiar with the functional paradigm, that is to say, one can program 
> in an imperative style in Scala before moving up to its functional 
> features when one is ready to do so. Most of the stuff relating to 
> 'monads' and 'implicits' went largely over my head. Nonetheless, it 
> has provided a springboard for further exploration of Scala.
>
> The thing that interested me the most from the meetup, however, was 
> the Q&A session, where an audience member regaled his experience about 
> learning programming languages, which to me was somewhat surprising 
> and unorthodox.
>
> For you see, he learned Haskell first(!) during his high school years. 
> Then, when he went to uni, he learned Java, which he found to be a bit 
> of a struggle, since he had to adjust to a totally different way of 
> thinking (sound familiar?). He said something along the lines of: with 
> imperative languages such as Java, the programmer is required to keep 
> track of state (of variables and whathaveyou) in their head, whereas 
> functional languages, which are supposed to be stateless, do not have 
> such a requirement...and that threw him off.
>
> From this, one could conclude that functional languages aren't 
> necessarily harder than imperative languages to learn, they just 
> require you to think differently.
>
> So I'm wondering if this rings true to you.
>
> Also, has anyone else here learned how to program in a functional 
> language before touching a more 'traditional' imperative language[1]?
>
> Tom
>
> P.S. I should probably go to more of these meetups, if for no other 
> reason than to come up with things to talk about...
>
> ---
>
> [Subject:] Kudos to anyone who recognises the allusion in the subject 
> of this email.
>
> [1] or, as I call it, learning to fly before learning to walk.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Progsoc mailing list
> Progsoc at progsoc.org
> http://progsoc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progsoc


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From roland at rolandturner.com  Mon Mar 20 18:59:40 2017
From: roland at rolandturner.com (Roland Turner)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:59:40 +0800
Subject: [ProgSoc] Happy 28th Birthday ProgSoc
In-Reply-To: <467deb30-939d-693f-7528-7505f3fe7f72@progsoc.org>
References: <9517434B-DF04-4C81-82BF-EC82B21B6DA0@progsoc.org>
 <67b11a54-9c86-59a8-b95e-04749bfec0c2@rolandturner.com>
 <467deb30-939d-693f-7528-7505f3fe7f72@progsoc.org>
Message-ID: <cc829dfb-431c-4998-cd13-105c8588ec7a@rolandturner.com>

On 20/03/17 15:32, Tomislav Bozic wrote:

> Well of course you can do a lot without a regular permanent space. All 
> you need is a core, sufficiently-motivated membership to run regular 
> events. I think that is our top priority.

This is hugely important, and is something that HackerspaceSG has 
slipped on for a year or two.

>
> Second would be the impending server issue.
>
> Third would be "get a permanent space". It's kind of hard to 
> facilitate a 'hackerspace' culture without one. Having a place to 
> chill out and work on projects is something I would definitely want 
> again.

+1

- Raz


From knockycode at progsoc.org  Mon Mar 27 11:54:11 2017
From: knockycode at progsoc.org (Jenny Nguyen)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 11:54:11 +1100
Subject: [ProgSoc] Interactive brushup on CSS selectors
Message-ID: <CAN2Xw+WLr-qbtX0PxrpFivnOXm_8ik1312FG2MQar=ZZ443Kww@mail.gmail.com>

Having trouble with CSS selectors or think you're good at them?

Try CSS Diner: https://flukeout.github.io/

I thought I had a good understanding of them but I found myself struggling
with some lessons...
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From roland at rolandturner.com  Tue Mar 28 13:16:45 2017
From: roland at rolandturner.com (Roland Turner)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:16:45 +0800
Subject: [ProgSoc] Interactive brushup on CSS selectors
In-Reply-To: <CAN2Xw+WLr-qbtX0PxrpFivnOXm_8ik1312FG2MQar=ZZ443Kww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN2Xw+WLr-qbtX0PxrpFivnOXm_8ik1312FG2MQar=ZZ443Kww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7b585568-7e2c-55a0-f3dd-0ad978946de2@rolandturner.com>

Erm, did you actually send this? I'm seeing identical wording in 
messages sent by others to other lists.

- Raz

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 27/03/17 08:54, Jenny Nguyen wrote:
> Having trouble with CSS selectors or think you're good at them?
>
> Try CSS Diner: https://flukeout.github.io/
>
> I thought I had a good understanding of them but I found myself 
> struggling with some lessons...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Progsoc mailing list
> Progsoc at progsoc.org
> http://progsoc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progsoc


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From knockycode at progsoc.org  Tue Mar 28 17:14:44 2017
From: knockycode at progsoc.org (Jenny Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 06:14:44 +0000
Subject: [ProgSoc] Fwd:  Interactive brushup on CSS selectors
In-Reply-To: <CAN2Xw+UhTeoUHj43f3VSU5_1-BQAzSiwknW0LNDC6s=_i-jQ5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN2Xw+WLr-qbtX0PxrpFivnOXm_8ik1312FG2MQar=ZZ443Kww@mail.gmail.com>
 <7b585568-7e2c-55a0-f3dd-0ad978946de2@rolandturner.com>
 <CAN2Xw+VFHNBj4O++LqXidSYPuJo=Cf24w+FyESybbL9n3zgo1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN2Xw+UhTeoUHj43f3VSU5_1-BQAzSiwknW0LNDC6s=_i-jQ5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN2Xw+Wo1cFmE6nzgfoDesB4Hjf7GxF1mM0W34PqF6aGys6hBg@mail.gmail.com>

FYI lol

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Jenny Nguyen <knockycode at progsoc.org>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 at 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: [ProgSoc] Interactive brushup on CSS selectors
To: Roland Turner <roland at rolandturner.com>


In re-reading my previous email... it does sound like spam. Woops, wasn't
my intention haha. *It's a legitimate safe link*.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 at 1:46 pm, Jenny Nguyen <knockycode at progsoc.org> wrote:

Yup I sent it to the ProgSoc list yesterday and the ProgClub list today. :)

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 at 1:42 pm, Roland Turner <roland at rolandturner.com>
wrote:

Erm, did you actually send this? I'm seeing identical wording in messages
sent by others to other lists.

- Raz

------------------------------

On 27/03/17 08:54, Jenny Nguyen wrote:

Having trouble with CSS selectors or think you're good at them?

Try CSS Diner: https://flukeout.github.io/

I thought I had a good understanding of them but I found myself struggling
with some lessons...


_______________________________________________
Progsoc mailing
listProgsoc at progsoc.orghttp://progsoc.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/progsoc
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